Kozak Talks Podcast
Ми знайомимо вас з українцями, які побудували тут неймовірне життя - підприємцями, професіоналами, громадськими лідерами та відомими українцями.
Їхні подорожі та інсайдерські поради покажуть вам, як боротися з викликами, відкривати можливості та реалізовувати свій потенціал - і все це з повагою до свого українського коріння.
Kozak Talks Podcast
Як українці в Україні та Великобританії планують свій бізнес і що не так?
Послухайте надихаючі історії українських підприємниць Антоніни Кутової та Владислави Білоцької про те, як вони будували успішний бізнес у Великій Британії. Отримайте інсайти, поради та історії життєстійкості.
Відкрийте для себе:
* Унікальний кар'єрний шлях Владислави від юриспруденції до бізнесу
* виклики та рішення для українських підприємців за кордоном
* Фінансову експертизу Антоніни та її пристрасть до розширення прав і можливостей жінок.
Кому варто послухати:
* Українські підприємці у Великобританії або за кордоном
* підприємці-початківці
* Інвесторам та менторам
* Усім, хто цікавиться українською культурою та підприємництвом
Pro capital investment
Roadshow Invest into Ukrainian
Владислава Білоцька
LinkedIn
Facebook
Антоніна Кутова
LinkedIn
Facebook
Let's start our podcast. Thank you for coming to the podcast today, to the Koza Talks podcast. We are already making podcasts with successful Ukrainians like you, Vladislava. I know that you have been living in the UK for more than 20 years. A lot of time has already passed here.
Speaker 2:Half of my life.
Speaker 1:Vladislava, please tell us a little about yourself.
Speaker 2:I am a Ukrainian. In 2001, I graduated from the University of Taras Shevchenko a law faculty, and I decided to continue studying in the UK and to get a master's degree in corporate law. So I ended up in London, england. I graduated here in corporate law and then I tried to find a job. At first it was very difficult because there were rejections all around because I was here on a student visa. The student visa did not allow employment. It only allowed 20 hours of work. So probably I spent about a year looking for a job by law because I didn't want to go to work in restaurants. And then a year later, a moment of wisdom came and I returned to Ukraine. I started looking for a job there among law firms as a specialist with a Western diploma. I had quite a lot of different proposals. Well, it so happened that one of the proposals was an international firm with an office both in London and in Kyiv, and they offered me a job in the UK in a London office and I came back here.
Speaker 2:And that's how it happened. Pllj International Lawyers they are quite a boutique legal firm. Our clients were mainly oil and gas, oil and gas, and I ended up in London. They gave me a job visa, and so my professional journey in the UK began.
Speaker 1:Did you want to live here or did you come here to work?
Speaker 2:You know, at first I wanted to get some experience there and then return to Ukraine and have a good job Because it was good on CV. On resume it looked like you had a couple of years of work in a law firm. I didn't plan to stay, but when I started working I realized that my life would be here.
Speaker 1:Did you come here yourself or did you find a husband here?
Speaker 2:No, I met a man here. My husband is Ukrainian, so children were born here. All locals, all Ukrainians.
Speaker 1:How did your adaptation go?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I adapted very easily. I came here with a certain level of language. I improved my language very much during university studies because I immediately went to the professional level of language. In terms of the university, I always felt comfortable here. It was a certain discomfort when, of course, with education, I had a first-class degree from Ukraine, a first-class degree here, and when I couldn't find a job for the first year because I didn't have the right type of visa. It was probably the only year when I felt quite comfortable here.
Speaker 1:You were held back by documents and that's it. Yes, but in general, you were not held back by anything. Yes, it was just that you had problems with documents. Yes, okay, so you are already starting to work in the company as a lawyer, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, I started my career as a lawyer in 2008.
Speaker 2:In 2008, I worked as a corporate lawyer, first at PLG International Lewis, an international boutique company. Then I moved to the Oil Gas Company which was here at the London Stock Exchange. I was their first lawyer, the Empirial Energy Company. In 2012, the company bought the London-based Metal Steel. I was at the 8th place of pregnancy with the second child.
Speaker 2:I graduated from the second legal school here and there was a choice to either continue looking for something in law school or to try myself in some other let's say in some other field and working as a lawyer. I always understood that I wanted to be involved in the full cycle of business. I realized that I wanted to be involved in the full business cycle. I didn't like the fact that the legal aspect is only visible in the picture but you don't see how the whole business works. In addition, I didn't like the long hours of work in the jurisprudence, because in jurisprudence you have to work sometimes when you close some deals. You work sometimes until or 4 o'clock, regardless of whether you are pregnant or not, whether you have children. That is social. Life was just a simple job and there was no such health to work for such hours, and I realized that I wanted to change something, and so it happened that there were annual investment events in Ukraine. Adam Smith was doing them and I met Mr Dymchak there.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I want to ask you still kept in touch with Ukrainians. You still felt like Ukrainians. You still wanted to go on these trips. I know a lot of Ukrainians. I can say for myself that when I came here I didn't have much connection with Ukrainians, more like with the British. But you kept in touch with Ukrainians, with British people, but you had connections with Ukrainians. You attended Ukrainian events, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, of course, I was constantly supporting Ukrainians. Moreover, when I came here for the first time as a student, I brought a lot of student groups here myself, starting in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003,. Many of the students I brought here stayed here, so the circle of communication was always with Ukrainians. I communicated with them mostly. They were my friends, they were my Ukrainian family, wow, great.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of guests who I know who were on podcasts. They didn't have much contact with Ukrainians, but you can say that you are the first one more from Ukraine, so you started to go to this event.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I met Mr Demchak at this event. Mr Demchak at that time led the association of entrepreneurs of Ukraine. He offered me to run a Ukrainian business center in London. He had the idea to create such a center. At that time there was already interest in Ukrainian business in the search for partners here. He decided to create a center that was to become a bridge between. Ukrainian and British business. I started him in 2011.
Speaker 1:And he still works in this business.
Speaker 2:The center was open for two years. He worked there for two years and then his house was closed. Unfortunately, he had some problems there. He went into politics, he had some problems with politics, he had problems in Ukraine. So he had to close it and I, having already worked as a client, as the director of the Ukrainian business center, decided to continue with the ProCapital Group. We organized two events for investment.
Speaker 1:And ProCapital Group.
Speaker 2:ProCapital Group is a Ukrainian company. It's a financial holding company. And as the director of the Ukrainian business center together with. Procapital, we did two events for investment in 2012-2013. And when the question arose that Ukrainian business centers are closed here, I really wanted to continue. The business One of the partners. Dmytro Olinik from ProCapital Group offered to open a company called ProCapital here. I agreed.
Speaker 1:Listen. You say business center. Is it the same company that is on the website, but it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 2:Business Ukraine. Yes, I created this site, but they just don't delete it for some reason. It is the Ukrainian Business Center in London. There are all the photos. There are both the ambassador and the GIP, wow, yes, but it doesn't work, it's just a site that works, but unfortunately it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1:Because when I watched everything Ukrainian, I wanted to know.
Speaker 2:You found it? Yes, news, you found it.
Speaker 1:But no one uses it.
Speaker 2:No, it should be removed.
Speaker 1:And now this business center is closed.
Speaker 2:No, it closed a long time ago. I have been working in ProCapital since 2014. Since 2014, it's just a website. Wow, procapital is a Since 2014 it's just a website.
Speaker 1:Wow, it doesn't work. Procapital is a company here in Great Britain, right?
Speaker 2:Well, the main holding in Ukraine.
Speaker 1:Aha, in Ukraine.
Speaker 2:And here I opened a branch of ProCapital. Well, it's a separate legal entity. It is part of the ProCapital group, but it's an English company, so we have Ukrainian holdings and a separate legal person.
Speaker 1:Do you work there as a lawyer?
Speaker 2:No, I am a co-owner and a director.
Speaker 1:I saw it on the website when I was doing the search. I thought it was cool that there was such a group, but no one was using it. You know, a lot of Ukrainian businesses are opening up here. I thought to myself why those who have been here for a long time. They can also teach those who have recently come here, or maybe even interview one another. It's cool. What are you doing now?
Speaker 2:We want to launch a fair of Ukrainian projects in the UK. There are many Ukrainian medium-sized businesses quite successful, where there are many interesting innovative ideas that require investment. Therefore, we have already done this in 2012-2013, then there was a break, but now we have decided, regardless of the events. We decided to withdraw because there is a huge need for this due to the fact that credit in Ukraine is almost non-existent and the middle business is the basis of the economy, as we know. Therefore, it needs this push, it needs this Western money and we decided to renew this enterprise so that the Ukrainian business could show itself here, show and invest in its projects.
Speaker 1:So you want to invest in Ukraine, their businesses? What did they show here on the market in the UK, europe and America? What Ukrainian business in Ukraine can show here? Yes, I understand, yes, you understand everything correctly, but I also want to add that we show not only Ukrainian business in Ukraine.
Speaker 2:We want to show successful Ukrainian projects outside the borders of. Ukraine, that is the enterprise itself, is called Invest in Ukraine. Invest in Ukraine Because many Ukrainians have left the relationship with the events and they are not interested. Ukraine, that is the enterprise itself, is called Invest in Ukraine. Invest in Ukraine Because many Ukrainians have left in connection with the events. Some are transferring production, many people with ideas have left, who have interesting ideas. So the idea is to combine projects of Ukrainians in Ukraine and innovative projects of Ukrainians outside of Ukraine.
Speaker 1:This is a great idea and a very huge idea. Why did you come up with this idea? Did you see that it is necessary to do this now?
Speaker 2:Because there is a niche in this. For medium-sized businesses, there is no platform where they can present themselves, because a large business has access to other consultants, they can afford it and they do not need to look for investments. Investments are looking for a big business, has access to other consultants, they can afford it and they don't need to look for investments. Investments are looking for a big business and a medium-sized business firstly, does not have a platform that's the first thing and, secondly, it doesn't even understand what financial instruments it can involve in the project. It needs to be explained, prepared and shown. That's why we decided to have a niche here and now. This niche is as relevant as ever in terms of art and events, and many Ukrainians have left. That's why we had the idea to re-cre turn the fair into a.
Speaker 3:Ukrainian one. I'm sorry to add that we started this in 2012 to present a quality Ukrainian business. The biggest problem with the introduction of financing, besides the fact that financing is limited in Ukraine and beyond its borders is that Ukrainian business is not ready to be invested. That is, they are not ready to get the documents, they are not ready to psychologically involve the businessmen, they are not ready to share information with investors.
Speaker 1:You say, in Ukraine Ukrainian businessmen are not ready.
Speaker 3:Ukrainian businessmen are in Ukraine and beyond the borders of Ukraine.
Speaker 1:And why is that?
Speaker 3:Because the level of financial literacy is very low, and we came across this in 2012, 2013,. Then we had a plan in Hong Kong and still in Qatar. And when we started preparing for this event last year, we understood that we had started a long cycle of negotiations that lead to nothing. Because Ukrainian businessmen do not understand that in order to get funding, you need to be open, work on the financial model of the business plan and spend money on a good structure of the agreement Not lawyers, not financiers. Because if you are not ready for the investor, if you have not prepared information for the investor, the investor will not invest in you.
Speaker 3:And why did this idea of renewing the fair come now? Because there are a lot of investment measures, but there are just talks. They do not have a practical character. They do not have a practical aspect. That is smart. People met, talked about how everything is great, what is the vector of development, what is happening in the market and what to do with it. No one understood. And you show the business how it should be done, how to prepare the business so that the investor will enter it, what the investor wants to see in your business. That is why we decided to renew the investment fair for investment projects.
Speaker 1:Antonina, I agree with you 100%. I go to these Ukrainian business events and I see that they talk a lot.
Speaker 3:They are very smart, but there is no practical aspect.
Speaker 1:Yes, there is.
Speaker 3:Business needs money At each stage of business development. It will be a startup, whether it will be, for example, the development of a new direction or, for example, it will be some parallel business which will be a companion for the business that is owned by the same owner. Business needs money. Financial security is limited now In Ukraine. Rates for loans are increasing.
Speaker 3:The only instrument which has been implemented in Ukraine in the last year and a half was the grant program, but also grants do not mean the return of money. They do not mean the return of money, but in Ukraine the grant had to be returned during three years with a total amount of actually paid taxes to the budget of Ukraine from newly created jobs, wages, that is. In fact, you still return, but the main element of this grant program was that the business will still receive money now, that is, if we know the theory of money in time, 100 dollars today is always more than 100 dollars tomorrow, and the business was ready for this in Ukraine to get this money. But the business when they said that, the boys and girls. Everything is great. But we also have to understand who we give money to and whether to return it, and that's why there were completely transparent conditions and we, by the way, also borrowed these conditions for our fair that is, business reputation, that there are no end beneficiaries from Russia. Yes, this is very important and critical for us as well that there is a viable business idea and that there is a working business plan. Even in the use of action, a form of business plan was loaded that needed to be filled, and it turned out to be quite difficult, and no matter how many meetups we held, no matter how much we explained how to fill these business plans, the mission was almost not completed, because the big difficulty and the big question is with financial and information literacy. And so when you visit various investment events for example, last week I was in Dubai at the big investment exhibition, but it was already in the Bigger Invest Meetup, where successful entrepreneurs told about their experience and how they got money, and all of them said that until they understood that it is necessary to have a working financial model and make a business plan and spend money on lawyers who will make you a competent mandate and a contract, this contract contract base then nothing came out of them that this is the first step that opens this green window to an understanding with the investor, with the investment world.
Speaker 3:When we come to the doctor with a visit, we give an analysis Our doctor in order to understand and give us a diagnosis and prescribe us some treatment. He should see our analysis. I don't want to say that business is sick. Sometimes we go to the doctor as a prevention. But when a businessman comes to meet with an investor, he must show him his analysis so that the investor also understands what he is putting in, how this business will work, whether the market needs this product, whether there is demand where this product will be in 3-5 years. The investor must understand, because the investor is not just a person who gave you a suitcase full of money and you have never seen this magician who did it to you. The investor wants his money back and this needs to be understood. And if, for example, the bank, how?
Speaker 1:to do was how to approach an investor. What does an investor need? I think many Ukrainians don't know this. They want to start a business here. But I have a question for you. You have told a lot of valuable information, but still in Ukraine the business is developing. How is Ukrainian business is still developing? How is it developing? How is it successful? How do they not know financial education?
Speaker 3:If they knew financial education, it would develop much faster and more businesses would be able to survive in these turbulent times. That is, looking at the comparison, the fact that the business has survived and continues to develop. It is simply the responsibility of entrepreneurs and their ability to make decisions. But this ability to make decisions, in addition to experience, must also be based on financial planning, because the business plan is just that compass In the business plan, a pessimistic and optimistic scenario will always be written. The truth will always be somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3:And what we are trying to convey at the meetup which we hold for grant programs, for the application of debt financing, what we are trying to prove is that, friends, in addition to the fact that you have to write this business plan, you have to be able to use it so that the iPhone does not dig the ground. But you have to understand where you are deviating, what numbers you do not get at the end of the month and where you need to pull up, what expenses, what cost-effectiveness you need to reduce, what are the costs, what are the costs you need to cut. And for this, financial literacy is needed. I'm not saying that every entrepreneur should understand each formula, the IRR, how it is calculated, etc. But every entrepreneur must understand and keep the main indicators of the work of your business, because then it will be faster to orient itself and will be more effective in making decisions. And now you asked in the previous program what is a life credo? One of my life's slogans is that it's not worth a minute, not a minute less, not a minute less.
Speaker 3:Why? Because we live in times, as Lewis Carroll wrote in Valencia, to stay in place. We need to run Now. Everything is changing so quickly and the market is changing and the news is changing and you have to make decisions quickly and effectively, especially when you have a business, when you have to pay taxes, when you have hired employees, and you because sometimes the financial model is enough to analyze the market. Because we talked with you today on the previous program about how people go to new markets Through analyzing the market. You go to the market, understand what this market needs, at what price this market needs, where this niche is.
Speaker 1:What are the prices of this market? Where is this niche and what will be the current competition? What do they propose? Who are the new players and where will it be in 3-5 years?
Speaker 3:Because you can start offering services or goods, but in 2 years it will be unimportant to anyone but the question is also interesting for me when can I to evaluate whether the consultant has paid for the service or not? You also need financial literacy. That is, there is no place without learning. You can buy a market analysis, a business plan or even a strategy for the enterprise, but even if this consultant will sell something to you, if you don't understand it. For example, many clients come to me and say we didn't get a grant or we were refused a loan. We have a business plan. Why? I say show me this business plan, where did you get it? And they say, well, we ordered from a consultant. I say, well, I already know who does business plans, so I even know the black list, who doesn't need to go there. And I look there are even two divisions instead of 12. And I say did you pay for this? I say it's just downloaded from the Internet, it's just edited. It's like a course work, you think. And just a person.
Speaker 3:Because there is no basic knowledge, she is not able to often assess whether her money was used for her benefit, and with such a low quality on the market, we are fighting with Vladislav in this regard when we were conducting the Roadshow of Investing Projects in Investing Ukraine in 2012-2013, we came across great businesses. We know who is interested, we have made an Invest Target, everything is great, but they don't want to share information about themselves. I say no, guys, it won't work that way. Either you open up, you are transparent, or who will buy the cat in the bag? I say no, guys, it won't work this way. Either you open up, you are transparent, or who would buy a cat in a bag, for example? I say you would buy yourself. You tell me no, we won't.
Speaker 3:Or there was another problem that we also encountered. Now we are here with Vladislav and we are more engaged in business psychology mediation, when partners cannot agree with each other and we say how come you guys have been working together for 15 years? How did you even start a business If you have such different views on business and, for example, one wants to give away a part and the other does not want to give away a part? He says, no, these are my children, that's all. And this position is understandable and this position is understandable, but it is not clear how these people work together for 15 years.
Speaker 1:Antonina, you tell a lot of great information. Tell us a little about yourself. How did you get to this moment? You have expertise at this moment.
Speaker 3:I know a little about Vladislava. We have such a duet here and I started my professional activity in 2001. In my first year of study, I had a book-up audit of an economics lecturer, and in 2001, I started working as an assistant accountant, while still studying at the university, and then as an accountant, and I wanted to gather all these experiences, since the book-office is held in different enterprises under different systems, that is, in a budget organization, this is one system, banking organizations are different, industry is different and agro-entreprises are different. I wanted to gather all these moments in my experience for quality expertise in the future, and I also started teaching in the university in 2004. Then there was Mogilev School, business school, then there were finances, behavioral finance, psychology education, legal education. That is then I constantly understood that in order to give quality expertise, you need to constantly increase your own level, because with practical experience, yes, you increase it, but you also need to increase it with knowledge, because you need to be able to read laws, you need to be able to read agreements, you need to be able to have conversations, you need to be able to negotiate with clients. Why psychology, for example? That is, all these moments you take all the same from the lesson yes, you use them in work practice, but all the same from the lesson and I once came to ProCapital Group as an analyst and already after half a year I founded my company as part of ProCapital ProCapital Investment.
Speaker 3:Within half a year we communicated with investors. We engaged in financing, organized conferences. We started with the Warsaw Stock Exchange. We were consultants for the issuers who went to the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Just in the 20th century, a company for Ukrainian companies was created. We began to build relations between investors and Ukrainian issuers on the Warsaw Stock Exchange.
Speaker 3:After that, it was the 12th year we started to invest in Ukraine and I also had an authorial project on the first business channel on UBC, first on UBC, then on the first business channel and on UBC, first on UBC, then on the first business channel about the capital market, where I met with the main players of the market, with legislators and financiers and businessmen, and we discussed what is painful for the business and how to solve it. Well, that is, there were both stories of success and failure for comparison, which happens differently. Because in life, in business, it happens differently. It doesn't happen that every business is successful. That's why now such popular serial entrepreneurs Because in order to succeed, you need to go through many steps. This is also a certain path and from each of these steps you will take a certain success.
Speaker 3:And then many international projects began because we basically closed the Russian market for ourselves with the beginning of the war in Donbas and at that time for us it was 70% of the client base, because all analysis of the market and all the investments that is were bought by a lot of people at that time in Russia and a lot of our clients. That is, we have a full cycle of financial services in the holding, that is, a company with management of assets and financial consultants, investment consultants and a lot of clients who come to us for the same service, and then we stay and continue. We are already friends with a lot of clients. We are friends with families because they have been serving us for more than 10 years, and when the Russian market closed, we closed it for ourselves. Many of our clients also had this problem because they were, for example, focused on the implementation of some kind of production or raw materials. They started looking for new markets. That is, we started to help them in this because we serve them in some other way as an aspect of business management and because of this, new directions emerged in our holding, for example, investing Ukraine, that is, during the war, we tried to find new opportunities for the development of our business, and so now, when we thought about the format of the event, we realized that the most needed now is the financing of the additional small and medium business, because it is the power of the economy and the medium business today.
Speaker 3:If we help, it is the big business tomorrow, and this is for those who pay taxes. While the big business has, as a rule, a lobby at the legislative level, and the big business, which has been credited for a long time, is served in certain banks, they are more easily given loans. The middle business is the most developed. The small business, for example, does not have such turns as the middle one, and the middle one has already started. There are these turns and the biggest problem is cash breakdowns for everyone.
Speaker 3:How to get involved? Yes, there are loans. There are 59 working. There are other loans that work, but it has become very difficult to involve them. We even developed a platform for quick loan collection in Ukraine where business plans, financial reports and information about those who need a loan are loaded, but there were also problems with the fact that there are certain moments when the program does not let you in, and what do we get as a result? We get that the business is without money. We need to build this city between money, and there are private investors. Today. There are financial institutions that are ready to give money, but business speaks one language, and I'm not talking about Ukrainian or English, but they speak another language, and so they need to help them understand, and they understand the language of well-prepared documents, transparent business structure and quality consultants.
Speaker 2:I'm talking more about lawyers who will accompany this agreement.
Speaker 1:Let's say a person has a good business plan structure but no finances and wants to take the finances to develop his business. Can you do that?
Speaker 3:Yes, of course, there are two differences. To understand your question, we are talking about startups. Does a person want to start a business or continue it Continue continue.
Speaker 3:This is not a problem at all. It is more difficult to invest in startups who do not have a business yet. There are startups that are founded by project initiators, projects that already have a business history and reputation, because the investor will ask about it, of course. What is realized by this person? What business initiatives? And here, for example, people who did not have a relationship with business before and this is their first business initiative, and this is also a startup, that is, it is not yet launched. There is no business initiative for three years.
Speaker 3:Well, it's very difficult for today, but for them, for example, if we talk about Ukraine, for them there is work. There is a grant program for micro-business for 250,000 hryvnias and there you need to create two jobs to fill this electronic form of the business plan in the use of the action. And precisely because it is a micro-business for 250 thousand hryvnias, they are considered as start-ups without experience. So they are necessarily called to a conversation, interview with the employment fund To see if a person understands what he or she will do, to see if the person understands what they will do. Or if they just downloaded the internet and opened a bakery or a chemist's shop, to see if the person has some calculations, understands where the income is ready to go. That's what interviews are for Very effective information.
Speaker 1:I understand that many Ukrainians who have just arrived in the UK, in the USA, in other countries, I hear a lot of people saying that they want to switch to business. I don't want to change my job, I want to work here. It's very difficult to become a professional here because you have to go through years or make your own documents not all documents but to redo qualifications. Many people here in Ukraine want to start a business. As you said, many of these events are cool, these businesses, because it's like a net. But that's it. But what's next? Because, as you say, I met with you. Thank God, I met with Heri and you helped me with a new business. Well, I still have a lot to do. But how does the business plan work? How to go to the investor, how to write the marketing plan, financial plan, how much money do you make? What are your expenses? This is also important Because expenses are what is cut off if you don't get certain income, because there is income but you don't get certain income.
Speaker 3:So in the first place we cut off the costs from the management. But to understand what are the main expenses in your business, what are the costs, you need to at least understand what are the main expenses and what are the main costs.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you what service you provide? Even Ukrainians will ask me now, Sasha, what can you help me?
Speaker 3:with business. Do you help with these services? In my company, financial and investment consulting and business consulting are a full cycle, that is, we provide services from preparing documents to working out a model, for example, a review of the financial services to me, 20-30 people and one of my experts trains them how to go to the business plan. It can be, for example, a simple business plan under one activity and, for example, if it's a huge agroholding, then there is one business plan. It's a joint business plan with 12 business plans in each direction and the financial service, for example, needs to somehow understand what is written there. Why, I will point out Because the accountants that the owners often rely on they are accountants.
Speaker 3:I myself am an accountant in the first world. It's a little different. They are great, they are considered great, but they are stuck under financial liability. Business plan is a bit different. It is more about financial planning and budgeting. And then, in order to connect all this together, it is just necessary to put emphasis on this correctly the accountants who are engaged in financial reporting are the ones who do the best. The accountants are great in the financial and administrative fields. The accountant is impossible without him.
Speaker 3:The accountant and the lawyer are the more successful the business will be Because they can tell the owner in time, Because the owner is more about the further road and doors, the strategy and others. That is, if the owner will deal with all the processes of the enterprise, then it is self-employment, not business. These are different things.
Speaker 1:Yes, business is when you can work without you.
Speaker 3:This is already a higher management.
Speaker 1:Yes, successful business.
Speaker 3:However, the owner, as I say, cannot stay for more than three months.
Speaker 1:I know that you wanted to talk more about Invest in Ukrainian. Please tell us about your project. It's very interesting.
Speaker 3:When we were doing Invest in Ukrainian with Vlada, we were watching it for a long time Because it was very risky for us, because we understood why no one takes it and no one takes it. Because it's very difficult to build communication with investors, on the one hand, and to build communication with businessmen, on the other, because for some reason, everyone thinks that this investor is looking for them and it is very difficult to explain that there is a queue for an investor and it is you who should interest the investor and you can interest him with a professional approach and the investor will not come to you. Do not expect him to come to get there if you really want to get funding, and we have been trying to convey this message for several months, but it is difficult.
Speaker 2:I will add a few more words. For some reason in the Ukrainian business they are all convinced that Western money will not enter Ukraine in any projects until the end of military actions. And to develop this, I am now in the preparation of this roadshow, that is, we are talking, on the one hand, with the Ukrainian business to get projects. On the other hand, I am working here. I am carrying out work with direct ventures and private equity funds. I want to say that there is interest in Ukraine will be the number one investor in Ukraine. All the funds that are sitting here and here most of the American funds are here, european funds they are already looking where to invest money.
Speaker 2:Structures are already being created, on the basis of which money will go to Ukraine. Therefore, it is necessary to show yourself, not to end military action, but to show your projects to start a dialogue with the investor.
Speaker 2:It is necessary already, even I would say yesterday, because the facilitation of the dialogue itself, the facilitation of trust between people in business, it also requires time, it takes some time and it needs to be done already. And I felt many, first of all, british people, not only the funds, but many British people, not only funds, but also big businesses.
Speaker 2:For example, at the beginning of the war they started to raise a lot of money for Ukraine. They created charities and they, having experience in Ukraine, want to continue investing there. Yesterday I had a conversation with a British man. He is in Oxford. A group of British people gathered about 3 million people in charity for Ukraine. They said to me we are interested. They are interested in innovative projects in the field of development, innovative projects in terms of building materials. So there is interest and how?
Speaker 1:do you find these investors?
Speaker 2:Look, first of all, we have contacts with venture funds, private equity funds. They all finance certain segments. They are not focused on everything. This is a selection process. I invite partners to this event, knowing what projects we will have. I am the owner of these funds to come to us. So I say what we do is very complicated. On the one hand, ukrainian business is just a titanic work. Ukrainian business is to select projects that will be here for a while and, on the other hand, to select the British who need these projects, because no one does it except us and the embassy.
Speaker 2:we were with Antonina for a couple of weeks in the embassy they say, yes, this is what is needed because there is no practice. That is, at the state level. There is a lot of support and, for example, uk Trading Investment comes and the embassy says we are ready to help, but what to invest? There are many forums here are held all year round in Ukraine. They are also necessary, of course.
Speaker 3:But it's information.
Speaker 2:There are no specific projects that can be invested in.
Speaker 3:To understand business, you need to see it. There are a lot of talks about Ukrainian business, but you need to show the representatives of Ukrainian business with their projects. How does this business look like? Yesterday I was at the Expo.
Speaker 1:In Excel there were Ukrainians who showed their technologies. I want to ask you does it go somewhere or not? Does it just show what we have and then go back to Ukraine? Does it work here? Does it work wrong? I don't know if there is a line, but there is a kind of hole, a sinusoid, and then you have to find that hole, to raise it to work. Does it work or not? Because to show that you have this product.
Speaker 3:The same story. Ukrainian business comes here for what? If it wants to enter the new market, it looks for what it can do, through which doors, through which windows it can enter this market.
Speaker 3:Where to implement their products, for example, to bring certain products with partners who will be in the UK. I have a personal business there in agro-processing and we also thought about how to do it. I just observed as cases how these negotiations take place. The same problem as with investors for business at such events that we organize with Vladislava, that is, they speak different languages. If you want your product to be bought, you must understand the needs of your client and understand the portrait of your client. This is precisely the analysis of the market, what it is for In our case, when we look for investors, we start with the portrait of the investor that is needed for this business and then the invest targeting begins.
Speaker 3:It is very difficult to do this with our business owners. We are already trying to speak in other words, not to use terminology to get this information and then we will do everything ourselves. And the same thing happens when new products are introduced into the market Entrepreneurs who come from Ukraine and who want to bring products here. They do not understand and do not want to understand what partners want from them. Who can present, for example, these products in their trading networks, this trading network, and who is the main client? What is the average check of this client. Does this product fit this client? Our entrepreneurs do not want to adjust very often not all.
Speaker 3:And it turns out that they seem to speak the same English language, but they do not understand each other because each of them has a different goal in these negotiations. For Ukrainians who present their products, very often not in all cases, but very often they think that they are guilty, that they should take their products and from this side, whatever country it is it can be the UK, it can be a European country, it can be an American country, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you need to understand what your partner needs, through whom you want to enter this market, what he needs, in what form he needs your product, at what price he needs it. Then, if the entrepreneur understands this, then the negotiations are going well.
Speaker 2:I will add something here. Two years ago I finished an export course. It was an organized course by our Ministry of Economy. I was also invited to take part, as I am in England, so that I could develop the expert of Ukrainian products here, and I even thought to start doing this as a business in parallel. And what did I come across? Well, first of all, the Ukrainian business is average which wants to sell something here, because they are not ready to spend money on consultancy. They want to pay you. When the product will start and will be sold, they will pay you a part.
Speaker 2:I say it doesn't work like that, because you need to do a market analysis. You need to understand what packaging to make. There are a lot of components. You need to conduct negotiations where to sell it To the government base To the government base.
Speaker 2:It all costs money To serve such a client in England, sitting in England at least. This package of services should cost around 5,000 pounds. This is the average price here, even a slightly lower price. This is my two-year experience when I studied the market here. They are not ready to pay for it. They are not even ready to pay half. They say what for?
Speaker 1:You pay.
Speaker 2:I say well then, and because of this I realized that I would spend a lot of time you know, and I live here, not in Ukraine, and here are local expenses and I realized that I did not turn this direction of influence, but I do not actively develop it because I am not ready to oppose it.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you very much for what you said. You are right. I really want to consult. I want to ask you the same question because I know your biography. I want to ask you why in England, ukrainian restaurants open up. Why Ukrainian restaurants open up? Why Ukrainian restaurants don't have it? There is Albina in London, but there are Polish and Lithuanian products. Why there is no Ukrainian restaurant where Ukrainian products are sold? Why is there no such thing at the moment?
Speaker 2:You know, I think that the problem is that it is quite difficult to fill it with Ukrainian products. They are afraid that it will not work, Although now, with this number of Ukrainians, they would have orders. You see, it is difficult to export agricultural products from Ukraine. This is the first thing. Secondly, there is a problem with the beginning. There is a problem with the beginning here. Every trade sector is governed by certain state structures. There is an organization I forgot its name of the organization it's the UK Trade Association. It was established at the beginning of the war. The UK was banned from bringing any agricultural products from two warring nations, From Ukraine and Russia. At the beginning of the war, I was asked to bring very gorgeous cherries from Central and Western Ukraine.
Speaker 2:I took it to help people to eat them and then I came across that, despite the fact that England helps us so much, there is a ban on it. So I think that this is one thing there is definitely a ban on agricultural products, so you can't bring them here.
Speaker 3:Can you bring agro-processing products, for example flour oil, as agro-processing is possible? For example, flour oil can be used as agro-processing products, but for example, vegetables, fruits as a primary product and meat and salt can't be used as a primary product.
Speaker 1:Ukrainians on Facebook pay for this salt Sausage, for example, can be used. Because it is a product of processing.
Speaker 3:And what about direct production?
Speaker 2:You know it's a good idea and it should be bought. In fact, there are a lot of Ukrainians now and you see many Ukrainians have discovered these culinary industries. They work quite successfully. There is a Balogna-Hal Galya a chain of culinary from Ukraine.
Speaker 2:Many chefs who worked in chains opened their culinary here. They are looking for online work and they are working quite well, so in principle, the store can be opened. This niche is not occupied and for those who think you need to make a business plan, Antonina and her team can develop a business plan see if there is a niche. By the way, we did a market analysis. We ordered to open a Kaliba here. Do you know what a Kaliba is?
Speaker 2:Kaliba is a common form of restaurant business in Ukraine, it's mostly in the city the restaurant is made of wood, oh cool. There is no such thing here, by the way. What is it? You go out of the city with your family. A huge restaurant stylized in Ukrainian style. You are served in Ukrainian costumes, and when only a lot of Ukrainians came, there was an idea because someone had these orders in Ukraine and they could only be transferred and put here. But I also did it. They ordered me to analyze the market.
Speaker 2:We looked and unfortunately, the marginality in this business is very low and very low competition, because here in this country, italian restaurants are leading Japanese cuisine, indian. All the rest, unfortunately, do not even occupy 10% of the market. And to change this dynamic? People are thinking about it, but they are opening. They are opening further. The girl opened a cafe. Maybe you don't even know her, she is Chinese she opened coffee shop with gluten-free desserts.
Speaker 3:They say she is in the center.
Speaker 2:She is very popular. She took 100,000 from someone here.
Speaker 1:She found investors here you mean Elizaveta right, who is in Covent Garden. Yes, I know, I know you said that you need to know the market, what this country needs in business, because many Ukrainians start their businesses here and they think that it's going well.
Speaker 2:And then after 2-3 years it just flies. And I have a few words for Ukrainians who are here. I have already attended several seminars here where they talked about how to start a business, where to get money In this country. In order to take a banking loan for a business, you need to have a two-year financial report. As long as you don't have it, no one will give you money. This is the country, so there are certain rules. You can also take personal loans, because those Ukrainians came with money who are sitting here on the money and do not know what to do with it.
Speaker 3:So they need to be linked and we thought about it with.
Speaker 2:Antonina too, that is for such. I meet Ukrainians who came here with capital, and on the other hand, there are a lot of Ukrainians who came here without money.
Speaker 3:But with great ideas and besides, I can add that these Ukrainians who came here with capital, this capital does not work and money should work, because when money does't work, they are devalued and they need business ideas for passive income so that this money works for them Because they sit on them.
Speaker 2:I didn't come with a bag of money. I have five friends who are sitting here.
Speaker 1:You said a lot of great information, but I also think about myself. As I do podcasts and a lot of things with Ukrainians, I think to myself how to gather this group of Ukrainians who you said have how do you say it? The grammar, the grammar. They don't understand it. I noticed it too, and they don't even want to learn.
Speaker 3:You understand. There are times when you don't understand something, but you understand that you need it and you start learning, and they don't even understand that they need it and that it's the locked doors that they can't open.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's pride, maybe you need to learn again you need to learn again. Link, link, Link. I think so. Did you want to say something?
Speaker 2:I wanted to say that if you want to learn a link, then you need to find a partner who has a lot of experience.
Speaker 1:Work in pairs.
Speaker 2:This is the outcome of the situation, because not everyone. You either form a competent team around you which is supporting your business if you don't want to do it yourself, or you want to do it yourself.
Speaker 1:Vladislava and Antonin. I would like to ask you the last question what advice would you give to young Ukrainians who want to enter the business, who are now in the theatre in Great Britain?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I will say that this country has opportunities for everyone. After living here for more than 20 years and starting almost from scratch, even without documents for work, I did everything here and I remember my graduation very well. When I graduated from the master's degree, one of the professors a doctor of science was an Indian.
Speaker 2:I was very impressed by her words. She said that in this country, there is a place for everyone. In this country, you can do both a career and a business, and now, having lived here for 20 years, I realized that there are incredible opportunities for business For different things. Therefore, the first advice is to do it first and not be afraid of it. If it doesn't work now, it will come out later. In general, any business idea depending on the type of business you are doing is 2-3 years. If, of course, in 3 years you do not make any progress at all, it is not viable. You need to return it and do something else. But to expect that you will start something and in 2 months you will already have profits. Many of the are in Ukraine, but business doesn't work like that. So in order to start a business, especially in this country where it's very expensive to live, you need to have a financial support.
Speaker 2:You need to create it, or by working for someone, you gain experience, you create this financial support and then something else starts. So the main advice is to do it and understand that it won't happen in one day, and to give your business ideas at least two years.
Speaker 3:I will add that I agree with Vladislav in everything, especially with regard to the financial pillow. A personal financial pillow is very important, and the same is true for every business. You can never confuse these two concepts your personal financial pillow and the financial pillow of your business. Financial literacy starts with the fact what financial safety pillow you have, and the same is true for business. If you calculate correctly what financial safety pillow you need correctly, business will be successful. And for this you need a financial plan so that you understand when you will start earning and when you need additional money that you do not earn yet and cannot get anywhere.
Speaker 3:It's very difficult to get funding from a startup. A business that has worked for at least a year is easier to get funding from. You need to think about how to live this year of business Not personally, but business and you can't take the first profits from business. You need to reinvest. You need to first take business to the first level and then take it from it.
Speaker 3:And the third advice is not to be afraid to try, but to be ready for what you are trying. Before, for example, taking a ticket somewhere, for example to Vienna, what do we do? We look at the weather in Vienna. But in business it's the same. Before doing something, you don't have to be afraid at all, because a lot of people think for years to make this or that step. You don't have to think about it do it or not? You need to think about how to prepare for the next step. This will be a true world perception and then everything will be fine. And do not be afraid of partnership. Do not be afraid of partnership, but look for a common-sense in partnership, because when you just look for a partner to get money, then this partnership will not do anything good and then you will have to re-brew and share it for a long time. And here is another point that you cannot borrow money for the business of relatives.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you. The question to you is this how do you think successful Ukrainians abroad or in the UK, how can they help Ukraine to develop?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, creating business abroad. They are already certain representatives of Ukraine abroad, which is appreciated by Ukraine. Why, for example, for investment business? They often say and I agree with this and I confirm this in my activity to involve a foreign investor in Ukraine. We need to grow a local investor in Ukraine. We need to grow local investors in Ukraine.
Speaker 3:Therefore, ukrainians who left the border are an example of how Ukrainians conduct business in Ukraine, because not every representative of Germany, austria, switzerland, uk will go to Ukraine. But those Ukrainians, those businessmen they meet here, they can judge them, how it is there, what is going on there. This is the first thing. Secondly, you can partner with Ukrainian entrepreneurs and do joint businesses and, by the way, a good legislative base has been created for this, and even I know that Ukrainian enterprises, which distribute funding for three stages and there can be a grant, a loan the third stage, when they partner, is under the guarantee of the export agency. They can export goods. Why not partner with the Ukrainian agro-producer? The producer can't, but the producer can and not to create here where some elements are made and here they are collected, and here, for example, they make jams and here they bake A joint enterprise and in this way, ukrainians invest in the fact of business in Ukraine. And there it is necessary to understand that in Ukraine, first of all, it is the creation of jobs.
Speaker 3:One of the main economic problems we have now is the relocated people who have left without a home, without anything. They were transported and the main thing is to put them to work so that they could live normally. Then another point, that is, these people can be employed. The second point is taxes that will be paid to the budget, and our budget is the one we pay taxes to the Ukrainian budget. This is how we support the state of Ukraine. The third point is not very popular for some reason, but a very good point. This is military obligations, military obligations under good one. It's military obligations, military obligations under the guarantee of the state of Ukraine. It's a patriotic position. How to invest during the war, and there, by the way, are very good percentages, and there you can start investing from 100 hryvnias, even that is. There are many possibilities, but I will return to the fact that, in order to realize these opportunities and know about them, financial literacy is needed.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Sasha, I would just like to add that the successful Ukrainians here who will do business will be the first investors in Ukrainian projects in the future. They will be one of the first to reinvest in Ukraine this year. So, of course, the more of them there will be the better. And here is our image as Ukrainians, as a business community, an image and an example for the British and for Ukraine. These are potential reinvestors.
Speaker 1:Vladislava and Antonina. I would like to thank you for the talks. You told your story. You told your success here in the UK. You told a lot of information about business how do you? See Ukrainian be an event. I will send you the links below. Dear Ukrainians, you can check it out. Where can you find us?
Speaker 2:We are located at the Green Park. It's Royal ABCS League Club. How can Ukrainians contact you your social media Social media LinkedIn, facebook we have a page of the event itself. Roadshow Investing. We will share the link. Yes, we will share the link.
Speaker 3:There is even all the exhaustive information about the event on the website, and there is even a registration form Listeners.
Speaker 1:You will all be subscribed below. For viewers who watch this through YouTube, it will be on your screen, you will be shown, and also on the description. Glory to Ukraine. If you like these podcasts, like, share, leave your comments. I want to say the last words hold on, don't worry, just move forward. Glory to Ukraine. Glory to heroes.
